Windsurf Foiling Discussion

[tempy]

I thought I would start a thread related to windsurf foiling so that we could keep track of the various comments and input.

I hope others will add their 2 cents. My experience is a sample size of 1 ...

I have foiled at least one session about 10 times now. Longest session about 90 min.

My first experience was at Laventana in February on dedicated Slingshot boards and foils. The experience was, let’s say mixed. I found the short mast limiting but also that safety net against massive crashes. I had a few of those on the long mast, but also finally felt some success there on the longer mast and smaller board.

Fast forward to summer. I bought Keith’s gear. Good deal btw.

My first 2 times at Nitinat were on the Roberts. I managed to make it work with my 5.8 Ezzy Zeta, but always felt as if the board was in the way.

The short mast is for friends who want to try it, or for chopping kindling.

I looked over at my 110l Fanatic Skate and wondered how it would ride with the power plate power box adaptor. The board “ looked” to be about the size I wanted.

Note: it doesn’t look much like most of the foil boards out there.

The first few times on the Skate were “ skaty “ and not very successful. Just too tippy.

But then after about 3 sessions on the skate it all just “clicked”. I can only compare it to that moment on the slack line when your foot stops shaking and you can “ do it”.

Every session after that was better and better. On the stock wing and 5.8 I was able to get out in pretty light stuff - there weren’t even kite foils out and very few whitecaps.

I sailed it with a 4.2 when others were on 5.0 sails, and the limiting factor then was the wing size as it became “ jittery “ at higher speed and unstable.

Frank lent me his smaller H2 wing and that was a game changer in higher winds.

By session 10 I am comfortable going high upwind, reaching and, the hardest part, coming almost straight downwind.

Sorry, the hardest part is the jybing, but I will save those stories for another post.

What is my takeaway?

I am glad I never shelled out lots of dough for a dedicated board that I would outgrow quickly. The crossovers - Fone Papenoo and Naish Hover look intriguing ( there were some at the lake) but I really think the best money spent is on some different foil wings and just put the thing on the smallest board you can manage.

I never uphauled the whole time at NN. I just lifted the sail up and climbed the mast, so don’t need the platform to stand on.

The smaller board seems easier to foil on as there is less distraction

I think that the board design / size is going to change considerably - just look how small the foil kiteboards are.

Others have the dedicated kit and I don’t want to knock their purchases at all. I just think the industry is cashing in on a very exciting not so new phenomenon. I would like to see more adaptive gear out there like the power plate.

Why do it? Apart from the fact it is a knee saver, there are 2 main reasons:

1. It is a true light wind option. Even foil kites fall out of the sky. On a windsurfer you can always “flog” ( foil slog) back to shore.

2. It is incredibly exciting and an amazing feeling. Almost totally silent and smooth with incredible exploring possibilities and carving / surfing sensation ( downwind).

I ordered the H2 , smaller wing from Windance and even at 40% off it is not cheap.

I am interested in other experiences and sharing tuning and setup tips.

Maybe the kite guys can start a similar forum? I know guys are making their own wings for their kites so there is a lot of knowledge and skill out there.

[nanmoo]

I'm curious to see you try kite foiling and then compare. It's much harder to learn. But if you consider you didn't need to learn to Windsurf first maybe it's easier overall. Kite foiling you are standing all front foot. Windsurf foiling is more of a Back foot relaxed stance. Both very quiet.

[tempy]

I see that in my future. Strapless surfboard riding might help with getting up.

I don’t like the idea of the foil being disconnected from my body, though.

Rule #1: stay away from the sharp pointy end!

I forget to mention the free Slingshot foil academy website - very useful.

They speak about two levels of foiling - the more back foot beginner level and more front foot advanced level.

The goal being to keep your head, front hip and foot in line. Sail raked back upwind and almost completely sheeted out downwind.

The front foot alignment changed it for me and made it much easier and more relaxed.

[grantmac]

You're probably quite a bit lighter than I am, 110L is a borderline sinker for me. The board I foil with is 130L and that feels like about the minimum I'd want.
I have the Fwind1 (big wing) for about a year now. Mostly using it in 8-15 with a 7.2m. The bigger sails need more board width to control.

I'm currently looking at the new, even bigger, wings from slingshot to get me going in lighter wind.

I find that I'd much rather foil than do regular windsurfing if I'm going to be marginally powered. Pumping to connect gusts is oddly satisfying.

[winddoctor]

I tried Morley's Naish Hoverglide 122 dedicated set up and found it very easy to use right away. Seems very high lift/low aspect and supremely cruisey. Gives you immediate confidence and is a fast track for foiling for sure. I was wishing for a longer mast immediately (though it's not short), and once things clicked I was wanting a smaller front wing. There is room for adjustment on the Naish, so a more front foot set up may be easily possible for more advanced foiling. It felt like a flying slalom board with lots of back foot pressure and high stability (all good for learning). I've tried only the Naish and came away conflicted; would this get boring quickly or is the slingshot board/high aspect wing the way to go to keep things interesting? 10' foil loops at Nitinat are totally in the realm of possibility!!! Maybe I should learn to jibe the things first .

Very keen to see where tech goes!

[winddude]

I've only tried one of the starboard dedicated setups for a short trial with a longer mast. Was glad to have it, gave me room to play with the whoops/trim without coming off the foil. Board was wider, I felt like tit was necessary to apply the front foot pressure to stop the foil from lifting out to windward.

Definitely an awesome alternative for light/marginal wind. Still out on the highwind freestyle, like what Wyatt Miller is doing in the hood, looks intense, but I'd be nervous at best looping with a battle axe on my board.

[thankgodiatepastafobreaky]

hey Nanmoo. I am on my second (kite) foil board and I'm still back foot or equal weight distribution. What are you riding?

[grantmac]

The slingshot definitely rides better setup for constant front foot pressure. Otherwise the back foot is kind of locked in and unable to move for gybes etc (not that I'm flying them). I also don't have back straps since they seem to just get in the way at my level.

One thing about foiling is that I think it'll make oldschool freestyle moves (flying downwind 360 anyone?) a lot of fun on marginal days.

Also I'm wanting a bit slower setup so I can foil wind swell, the slingshot out runs it really easily. I'm slowly learning how to turn hard enough to stay on the swell but the most I get is a turn or two.

[more force 4]

Thanks for starting this thread Tempy, I was thinking we needed one.

Some of my thoughts on the Naish Hoverglide 122. I am a lot older (65 next month) and was never as naturally athletically as WindDoc, let alone as skilled a windsurfer. I'm not yet 'clicked' on it, but I did have a revelation that, as soon as I felt the board start to drop, a small 'back foot' leg pump halted the drop and smoothed out the foil. Going for a long time on the foil is really addictive - it takes so many microadjustments I think it would be along time before I got bored. Jibing on the foil looks absolutely amazing when done right (I saw this kid at the Event site....).

I'm glad I bought the dedicated board. From what I've heard, a non-specific board really doesn't have enough of the high-strength foam and other components around the foil attachment area, and most adapted boards only last a dozen or two sessions before going soft, even with an adapter plate. We'll see how it works out, and the low cost of used windsurf boards might make this price-conscious. The Hoverglide has a double US-style track to mount the foil and if it breaks its going back on warranty.

The bigger Naish boards, and the Starboard entries etc. seem overly big to me. If you were in a chronically low-wind area, they might be the right choice, to get out with big sails in 8 or 10 knots. But here, there's usually more wind even on marginal days, and in higher wind I can see the board really getting in the way. The Naish seems like a good compromise, wide and fat near the back for uphauling float and foil side-to-side control, but short and thin-nosed for low swing weight. Its short enough the booms miss the nose and tail on falls (hang on to the boom to miss the foil...)

I haven't tried out the different foil settings yet. There is a trim on the stabilizer that can be adjusted for more power at the bottom end or less and more stability for higher wind. I've left it in the middle for now as recommended by Big Wind's Eddy Patricelli (ex-editor of Windsurf mag). I tried out the bottom end last night with a 7.4 sail. Even as the wind dropped, it was easy to pump once or twice and up it went on the foil. Pretty sure that was about 8 or maybe 10 knots at the most. I did note that I needed to keep almost all my weight on the back foot to stay foiling - probably in this case, moving the track a little forward and trimming for power would allow more front foot and overall stability.

Last night the wind quickly dropped to slog-only 5 knots or so, and I was happy to see that I could uphaul that huge rig (not sure I'll use it much, I think the 5.9 Sailworks dedicated foil sail probably gives as much oomph with way less weight, its on the 'wish list') and flog back to the beach. I definitely would have been swimming with a kite by then.

The foil's long mast makes it easy to slog even a little upwind, provided you go easy with the back hand. This seems WAY safer than risking a big shore bubble to get out to the windline at Gordon's, for instance. I'd happily 'flog' with a small sail to get out -- and back.

I would like a longer mast. It gives an effectively way wider 'sweet spot' where you aren't so low the board is catching, and not so high that you break the surface, stall, and plunge till the board stops you. 70 cm seems a long way up at the beach, but not intimidating at all. But 90 cm or 100 would mean way fewer splashdowns.

There is also loads of adjustment on the track, with more forward for heavier riders and beginners, and back for lighter and more skilled. Again, I've left it in the middle for now. I want a few more long Nitinat days to get comfortable then start experimenting with trim.

Grantmac, if you see me at a beach ask about trying out the Naish foil - I'm not sure if this is the same foil size and shape they use on their SUP for swell riding, but I expect its close - it foils at a slow enough speed its probably easier for what you want to do.

[tempy]

Thanks, Morley - there is such a variety of styles, sizes and options out there right now. I would like to try that Naish when we meet again.

Wyatt Miller told me my 227 cm Skate is even too big. I think he is riding the Wizard 105 - 30 inches wide and 5'10" long!

BTW, I am trademarking "flogging"!

[grantmac]

I'm hoping to be back on the Island permanently this September and I'll be getting out as much as possible. I'd be thrilled to add the Naish to my list of test foils. I'm going to try and demo the new, huge, slingshot wings this summer.

The ability to flog your way out opens a lot of launches that just won't work for smaller boards or kiting.

[winddoctor]

Thanks, Morley - there is such a variety of styles, sizes and options out there right now. I would like to try that Naish when we meet again.

Wyatt Miller told me my 227 cm Skate is even too big. I think he is riding the Wizard 105 - 30 inches wide and 5'10" long!

BTW, I am trademarking "flogging"!

Yes, that's what he's riding and recommends that set up to an experienced windsurfer. He was hucking 20' backloops at the hatchery on a 4.0 when I was shooting him (thus the 10' Nitinat loop lightbulb )

Keener will hopefully chime in at some point once he gets up and flying/flogging/flop hopping

[more force 4]

Ohhh WindDoc "flog hopping" i presume this is in reference to being a weeee bit underpowered and pumping to a foil only to sink back once you stop?

I hope that this minimizing of board volume and length doesnt end the glimmer of hope for a rebirth of the sport at light wind locations, the way shortboards killed it almost everywhere back in the 90s.

[nanmoo]

hey Nanmoo. I am on my second (kite) foil board and I'm still back foot or equal weight distribution. What are you riding?

Everything is relative and you have so much experience now your feet are probably much closer together and near the center of balance. Either way, I think if you hopped on a windsurf foil board your definition of equal weight or back foot heavy would change. It's waaaayyyy further back there. Just like when you learnt to windsurf and you couldn't wrap your head around how you'd ever get your foot way back there. I've ridden the village liquid force kite foil at Nitinat and the communal LP Foil at Strong and MF4's Naish Windsurf foil.

[winddude]

If the gear gets to a point where a heavyweight like me can start throwing flat water loops in the marginal stuff 15-20knots that'd be sweet!